interestingly, the company who were trying this, CCP, achieved a lot of what makes world of darkness excellent in their main title Eve online. however, the cancellation of this was sad. the company decided that, in light of their current projects they couldn’t give WoD the justice it deserves.
by the by aaron, if you ever fancy delving into the dark world of Eve online, give us a kick and I’ll give you the guided tour 😛
This is my main problem with MMOs. I like having an effect. I can’t ignore when a game makes something pointless, when I can’t even pretend that I had the effect that it’s telling me I had, because it has to instantly reset for the next sap to come along.
It’s an odd thing; if you’re being logical, nothing you do in your average MMO has a lasting impact unless the people running it are doing something special (like that ridiculous WoW Choppers thing), and those times are few and far between (and generally ridiculous, to boot). Emotionally, I derive far more satisfaction from playing a crafter than I do from clearing a dungeon out /again/. See that chair? There are thousands just like it, and probably over a hundred characters who could have made it even though carpentry is a ‘useless skill’ that doesn’t make nifty weaponry or armor, but I’m the one who made it.
If you like crafting and shop running take a look at Puzzle Pirates. Mostly player run economy with bidding on commodities and crafting most everything in the game.
Actually the Elders Scrolls Online does manage to simulate such a “persistent game effect”. They have a very advanced instancing tehcnology that allows person to have a “personalised” view of an area. Less content for Questnodes.
And the same physical map can be used for a “Dream Sequence” part. Or a city can temporarily turn into a battleground. There are some issues with grouping (if you allies quest-states are not identical to yours for an area that may differ, you cannot help each other), but I am hopefull those will be fixed.
Also there are several quests with pseudo-moral decisions, that have influence on later appereances of those Characters/Groups.
Small things for a game, but it does boost immersion by a significant amount and is afaik totally new for an MMO (and something I have missed).
What I think Me-me is saying is that, in lieu of the entire game, your playing only affects you. You don’t actually get to change the entirety of the game and have some player go “Why is this as such?” and be able to respond “Because I made it that way when I did such and such.” There is a certain amount of satisfaction when one gets to alter the world on a fundamental level.
The primary problem with that is that the players who are first on the scene make those changes before newer players ever get a chance to. Some players would, inevitably, want to blitz the game at launch just to make the game go where they want it to, even if it ruins the fun of the others. (Those who play MMOs know this is true–ask the vets about the WoW Blood Plague or the UO players about Lord British’s assassin.)
“Oh, yeah, there was an epic battle. The results will change the focus of the war. Oh…yeah, it happened a few months ago. Sucks to be you.”
The developers would have to create new quests and retire defunct ones every month, if not every WEEK. Not to mention the fact that if the new players feel they missed out on the cool stuff, they’ll become EX-players.
Right. You can’t have world permanence in an MMO. It’s inherently impossible for the genre, without what you said or starting whole new servers every few months or something.
Which is why I’m never going to be interested in an MMO.
I’ve never seen an MMO that didn’t have you go kill 10 boars, then go kill 20 marmots (type of creature not important here). Centering one around intrigue, dialogue, and manipulation instead of kill grinding would require rethinking a lot of industry standards. Not that that’s a bad thing, it’s just that I’m not really expecting anyone with the kind of money to put something like that together to be willing to take that kind of risk.
There is such an MMO; it’s called EVE Online, and it was created by the same company that was working on WoD.
Unfortunately, they stopped creating anything meaningful years ago, and have instead focused on ways to string along their existing players with promises of features to come which are never fulfilled.
Questionable. one of the bigger issues in early CCP was a mentality to press forwards with the new without thinking about it first. this worked for a while but a mixture of poor game balance, poor mechanics and eventually the Incarna expansion (walking around in stations) lead to a mass player revolt which made CCP re-address it’s priorities.
as such, the focus for the last few years has been to turn around and correct certain flawed aspects of the game. unfortunately, due to the earlier “FORWARDS!” mentality the code within eve is a Cthulhu based mess and it’s taking time. progress however is happening with the dawn of a full industry revamp, the near completion of the ship rebalance project and the creation of new “space structure” code.
of course, now that CCP is running around fixing things people are complaining that they aren’t ploughing forwards again 😛
Sure there were balance issues, especially in the early years. But there was no need for the typical “kill 10 boars” sort of questing in typical MMOs. There was plenty of intrigue and manipulation, as the bulk of the game content was generated by interacting with other players. What you did could very well make a difference and impact the face of the game.
As for the “mass player revolt,” it was not because of “walking around in stations,” but rather a severe lack thereof. CCP had promised avatar-based gameplay, and instead delivered a single room where a player could sit by himself, and really do nothing worthwhile. Failing to deliver on promises at one time elicited player outrage; nowadays it is just considered standard operating procedure for CCP.
Actually, the revolt was primarily sparked by the introduction of “micro”transactions for virtual clothing items that cost more than they would in the real world, combined with a leaked memo which indicated a move towards a “pay to win” structure.
interestingly, the company who were trying this, CCP, achieved a lot of what makes world of darkness excellent in their main title Eve online. however, the cancellation of this was sad. the company decided that, in light of their current projects they couldn’t give WoD the justice it deserves.
by the by aaron, if you ever fancy delving into the dark world of Eve online, give us a kick and I’ll give you the guided tour 😛
This is my main problem with MMOs. I like having an effect. I can’t ignore when a game makes something pointless, when I can’t even pretend that I had the effect that it’s telling me I had, because it has to instantly reset for the next sap to come along.
Let me be of consequence, damnit! (ESO is evil.)
It’s an odd thing; if you’re being logical, nothing you do in your average MMO has a lasting impact unless the people running it are doing something special (like that ridiculous WoW Choppers thing), and those times are few and far between (and generally ridiculous, to boot). Emotionally, I derive far more satisfaction from playing a crafter than I do from clearing a dungeon out /again/. See that chair? There are thousands just like it, and probably over a hundred characters who could have made it even though carpentry is a ‘useless skill’ that doesn’t make nifty weaponry or armor, but I’m the one who made it.
If you like crafting and shop running take a look at Puzzle Pirates. Mostly player run economy with bidding on commodities and crafting most everything in the game.
Actually the Elders Scrolls Online does manage to simulate such a “persistent game effect”. They have a very advanced instancing tehcnology that allows person to have a “personalised” view of an area. Less content for Questnodes.
And the same physical map can be used for a “Dream Sequence” part. Or a city can temporarily turn into a battleground. There are some issues with grouping (if you allies quest-states are not identical to yours for an area that may differ, you cannot help each other), but I am hopefull those will be fixed.
Also there are several quests with pseudo-moral decisions, that have influence on later appereances of those Characters/Groups.
Small things for a game, but it does boost immersion by a significant amount and is afaik totally new for an MMO (and something I have missed).
What I think Me-me is saying is that, in lieu of the entire game, your playing only affects you. You don’t actually get to change the entirety of the game and have some player go “Why is this as such?” and be able to respond “Because I made it that way when I did such and such.” There is a certain amount of satisfaction when one gets to alter the world on a fundamental level.
The primary problem with that is that the players who are first on the scene make those changes before newer players ever get a chance to. Some players would, inevitably, want to blitz the game at launch just to make the game go where they want it to, even if it ruins the fun of the others. (Those who play MMOs know this is true–ask the vets about the WoW Blood Plague or the UO players about Lord British’s assassin.)
“Oh, yeah, there was an epic battle. The results will change the focus of the war. Oh…yeah, it happened a few months ago. Sucks to be you.”
The developers would have to create new quests and retire defunct ones every month, if not every WEEK. Not to mention the fact that if the new players feel they missed out on the cool stuff, they’ll become EX-players.
It’s a tightrope, to be sure.
Right. You can’t have world permanence in an MMO. It’s inherently impossible for the genre, without what you said or starting whole new servers every few months or something.
Which is why I’m never going to be interested in an MMO.
I’ve never seen an MMO that didn’t have you go kill 10 boars, then go kill 20 marmots (type of creature not important here). Centering one around intrigue, dialogue, and manipulation instead of kill grinding would require rethinking a lot of industry standards. Not that that’s a bad thing, it’s just that I’m not really expecting anyone with the kind of money to put something like that together to be willing to take that kind of risk.
Ever heard of URU live, dear? Yeah, tanked twice, but it did not have any ten-boar-killing.
Eve Online in the no security area
There is such an MMO; it’s called EVE Online, and it was created by the same company that was working on WoD.
Unfortunately, they stopped creating anything meaningful years ago, and have instead focused on ways to string along their existing players with promises of features to come which are never fulfilled.
Questionable. one of the bigger issues in early CCP was a mentality to press forwards with the new without thinking about it first. this worked for a while but a mixture of poor game balance, poor mechanics and eventually the Incarna expansion (walking around in stations) lead to a mass player revolt which made CCP re-address it’s priorities.
as such, the focus for the last few years has been to turn around and correct certain flawed aspects of the game. unfortunately, due to the earlier “FORWARDS!” mentality the code within eve is a Cthulhu based mess and it’s taking time. progress however is happening with the dawn of a full industry revamp, the near completion of the ship rebalance project and the creation of new “space structure” code.
of course, now that CCP is running around fixing things people are complaining that they aren’t ploughing forwards again 😛
Sure there were balance issues, especially in the early years. But there was no need for the typical “kill 10 boars” sort of questing in typical MMOs. There was plenty of intrigue and manipulation, as the bulk of the game content was generated by interacting with other players. What you did could very well make a difference and impact the face of the game.
As for the “mass player revolt,” it was not because of “walking around in stations,” but rather a severe lack thereof. CCP had promised avatar-based gameplay, and instead delivered a single room where a player could sit by himself, and really do nothing worthwhile. Failing to deliver on promises at one time elicited player outrage; nowadays it is just considered standard operating procedure for CCP.
Actually, the revolt was primarily sparked by the introduction of “micro”transactions for virtual clothing items that cost more than they would in the real world, combined with a leaked memo which indicated a move towards a “pay to win” structure.